they are not the gifted bill clinton kind. so what -- you tell me whether when we listen to these two guys wednesday night it will be how they convince us who has a better poll policy or it will be a moment like avoiding a tbaf, or like al gore seeing. >> we have a greater history of negative things happening in debates that change the trajectory of races. so don't screw up. that's rule number one. but rule number two, if you are mitt romney when you go into this debate you need to change the trajectory of this. you can't do it by being a human fact checker. but what you can do is remember you are talking to tens of millions of american voters that night and whatever the question is, whatever obama says, mitt romney has to make sure he puts a simple clear statement of his views and his beliefs about the future of the united states on the record. it's his chance to put it on the record so he can't screw around. >> i would recommend him not telling too many jokes. he needs to be very careful. >> this economy is no laughing matte